The Bomb Buried In Obamacare Explodes Today-Hallelujah!
I am "NOT" trying to get any arguments going - just want your opinons please.
Thanks
Teresa
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GO HOGS GO!!
Woooooooooo, Pig! Sooiee!
1|1|I think that we will all benefit once profit is taken out of the equation of health coverage...|sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|13:27:40|12/03/2011|
Just about two years ago my friends 40 something year old sister (no insurance) went into the ER complaining of pain. They sent her home with some pain pills. Some hours passed and Cat went back to the ER where just a short time later, she died of a bleeding ulcer.
Call me cynical, but I've had really good private insurance and I have had state funded insurance and I have had years of no insurance. I've been able to compare how people are treated with top quality insurance, with Oregon Health Plan and with nothing and the goal of every hospital isn't to treat the sick, it is a make a hefty profit, regardless of the long term cost in human life. Once the ability to make that hefty profit disappears, I think it will level the playing field and we will all ultimately get better care. 2|1|These are my thoughts and don't wish to get harsh remarks from my thoughts.|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|15:07:58|12/03/2011|
Posted on Dec-03-11 at 03:07 PM (Eastern) by 67.247.231.51
When my Husband I first got married, we had no insurance, Thank God we had no major medical problems. But whatever happened we managed to pay for all our medical bills, not all at once but over a period of time.
We had our Son, and had to pay the Dr., Hospital etc. Still no insurance, but we had an agreement over a period of time we would pay them all off. We did. It was our responsiblility. Didn't expect anyone else to pay for our bills.
Now days we are expected to pay for people's insurance, food, heating bills welfare, no Father children, and whatever else the politicians can dream up. Well I for one don't want to be paying for any of these things for anyone else, I am responsible for me and that's the way it should be. I don't want any money or expect anyone to support me or do I want to live off the government at other peoples's expense. Too bad everyone doesn't think like that. This country would be in better shape. If you need anything you should work for it. I surely did. As well has others. We have to stop giving to free-loaders. There was a program on TV a couple years back, its seems this guy took a taxi everytime he went to the hospital and that was very frequent, if he had a cold, off he went. Cut his finger, off he went. I paid for his free trips to the hospital and paid for his care that he received. It has to stop somewhere before it really gets out of hand and this government is bankrupt. I'm sure there will be some who disagree with me that they feel we should all pay for others benefit. But I'm tired of footing the bill all the time and everytime.
I'm not writing to create any hard feelings about all this, as this is just my thought!!!!
And I'd like to add that I'm always in there to help out those on this board who need help and I try to give what I can.But this is what "I" wish to do not have anyone make me do this.
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Garnette member 3|2|Flapper, I agree with you 100000%.....I do recognize that sometimes a person may need a hand up...|kellysp6637|frugalk76@aol.com|15:53:08|12/03/2011|
however, many in our society today feel they are entitled....that a hand up is not enough...that they should automatically have what someone else may have after working 20 years for it, etc.
It's quite sad. 4|3|Yes it is and it won't get any better.|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|15:56:04|12/03/2011|
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Garnette member 6|2|Flapper........wow this statement is very cruel *We have to stop giving to free-loaders.*|QponFreebieQueen|QponFreebieQueen@gmail.com|16:00:44|12/03/2011|
It is great that YOU were able to pay off what you owed. But You did not pay off those bills yourself correct? I mean didnt you *rely* on another such as your husband to pay those bills also. And why didnt you have $$$ the right away when you went to the docs or the hospital? i mean the nerve!they wanted their money and you made them wait for it, so you were free loading for a time. if you could not pay them off right away you yourself were doing the same thing.
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22|3|Because in those days that's the way it was done. Both my husband worked, I worked up to just about the time Son was to be born|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|05:12:00|12/04/2011|
Posted on Dec-04-11 at 05:12 AM (Eastern) by 67.247.231.51
He Was suppose to be born on May 20, and was born in June, I WORKED UP TO 1 WEEK BEFORE HE WAS BORN, WHY BECAUSE I WAS able to do so. No I did not milk the system. And no my Husband did not pay for the bills, I also went back to work to pay for those bills. NO I DID NOT DEPEND ON MY HUSBAND, HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING, YOU WEREN'T THERE. My Husband worked nights and I worked days so "we" could pay the bills. Husband was laid off most of the time as he had get enough senority to hold the job so most of the time there was only "MY" paycheck coming in! In those days 1962 the cost of Dr. and hospital wasn't very expensive like it is now. And there were other bills to pay, so until we were able to get insurance we "MANAGED ON OWN" without help from family. Unlike the people now who want to milk the system. Sit on their lazy asses and collect as much as they can and get what they can because of people like us who worked hard all our lives and are afraid to say NO in plain english and sit back and dish out the money.
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Garnette member 5|1|Destruction of capitalism|oakridge32|hammer_1116@yahoo.com|16:00:23|12/03/2011|
So now companies like United Health Care & Aetna can't make a profit? That's wrong and it's a destruction of capitalism. They will find a way to make a profit, their shareholders will demand it, but policy holders will suffer as SG&A is cut to the bone and service will be horrible. 7|2|As a healthcare worker (nurse) for the past 19 yrs, I surely would not want to go back to making minimum wages because of a company I work for isnt able to make a profit (ie, may not make enough money to maintain the standard)....how many people do you think will want to be nurses, doctors, surgeons, etc if they are making much, much lower salaries? (And please dont play the 'nurses and doctors should do what they do because of intrinsic reasons card.....it is a career just like any other, and those with the education and skills/experience should be paid to take care of sick and dying people, to save lives).|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|16:22:15|12/03/2011|
" You'll get what's coming to you ... Unless it was mailed."
9|3|I want nurses (and doctors for that matter) to be able to earn good living wages....|sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|19:11:06|12/03/2011|
Look at Canada for a minute (just for this part of the example-- not that I am saying the US will ever see socialized medicine, I believe we will create something that has never been done before, just for arguments sake there), but anyway in Canada nurses earn the same as professions which require a similar level of training/college.
My "beef" if you will, is with corporations within the health care market who make life and death decisions daily based on profit! There simply has to be a better way to provide health care (which to me is a basic human need) and protect those jobs at the same time. 10|4|I am a healthcare worker.....I am also a consumer who carries health insurance....my premiums go up every year, as do my deductible/out of pocket. Just to make it clear, with the present system, it's not the healthcare workers who are getting rich off the cost of healthcare...but you can be SURE that if a healthcare provider (ie, hospital, etc) is losing profit, the first place they will cut is the wages and benefits of its employees.|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|19:24:39|12/03/2011|
" You'll get what's coming to you ... Unless it was mailed."
8|2|Boo hoo|bish8|bish212@earthlink.net|17:20:46|12/03/2011|
the main problem: insurance companies are not in the health care business, they're in the money business. Care is secondary, and "clever" ways to deny coverage and care are profit generators. We can have affordable health care, or corporate profiteering in the health sector: we can't have both.
11|1|I myself don't have insurance and it's been very hard for myself, due to all my health issues, I just try to keep going, but somedays I feel really bad (like today) and feel so awful...I went to the ER last year, and the dr wanted to do test and things, but then looked at my chart (no insurance) and said we will just send ya home with some pills :( so I figure why even go to the ER, cause I get a bill from them and don't get anything solved health wise~*~|RebekkaVA|queen_vulture@msn.com|19:34:30|12/03/2011|
~*~REBEKKA~*~
a.k.a. "Queen Vulture"
Married to my Soul Mate William
"My husband has cancer, Please pray for him"
Mommy to:
Timothy 5/80
Matthew 10/92
Cheyenne 9/99
Grandmother to Alayna 3/10
*EMAIL*: queen_vulture@msn.com
Feedback link: http://www.refundsweepers.com/dcforum/feedback/796.html
12|2|Rebekka, sending you an email|Ranalt|ainebailey@gmail.com|21:18:21|12/03/2011|
Life is like a cup of tea,
It's all in how you make it.
Lisa
14|3|Thank you Lisa :)|RebekkaVA|queen_vulture@msn.com|21:30:41|12/03/2011|
~*~REBEKKA~*~
a.k.a. "Queen Vulture"
Married to my Soul Mate William
"My husband has cancer, Please pray for him"
Mommy to:
Timothy 5/80
Matthew 10/92
Cheyenne 9/99
Grandmother to Alayna 3/10
*EMAIL*: queen_vulture@msn.com
Feedback link: http://www.refundsweepers.com/dcforum/feedback/796.html
13|1|I for one would lovee to see the day when the mighty insurance companies do more for the people than themselves. I also would love to see the day where every American citizen has health insurance.|Ranalt|ainebailey@gmail.com|21:25:22|12/03/2011|
No one should have to suffer or die based on where they work and what type of health insurance they have, plain and simple.
Life is like a cup of tea,
It's all in how you make it.
Lisa
17|2|about time|bish8|bish212@earthlink.net|22:10:57|12/03/2011|
The most powerful provision of the HCR law is that 85% of premiums MUST go to actual health care for actual people...
28|3|Now this part I totally agree with!|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|15:53:12|12/04/2011|
" You'll get what's coming to you ... Unless it was mailed."
15|1|years ago:|20yrrefunder|tradernikki@yahoo.com|21:52:05|12/03/2011|
Years ago my best friend and I had babies exactly three weeks apart. We had the same Dr. and the same hospital and even had the same bed - very small town hospital. She had insurance and I did not. We compared our bills and hers was much higher than mine - must have been because they were billing her insurance more than they thought that I could pay. Doubt if it is much different nowdays.
Nikki
http://www.refundsweepers.com/dcforum/feedback/366.html 16|2|Nikki, years ago when we had to pay for 100% of our pediatric office visits they were $30. When we switched from our traditional Blue Cross to a HMO that covered 75% of our Pediatric office visits, guess what, those office calls charge went from $30 to $60!|Ranalt|ainebailey@gmail.com|22:05:21|12/03/2011|
Here I thought I should be paying 75% of the $30 office visit charge. I called up billing and they said that is what the insurance company told them to charge.
I never had to pay that 75% of the $60 because the doctor said no way.
Too bad there aren't more doctors like her!
Life is like a cup of tea,
It's all in how you make it.
Lisa
18|1|I am one of those "Freeloaders" but dont have a choice|kandywolf|kandywolf@gmail.com|22:41:41|12/03/2011|
I am bi-polar and can not work, my x husband is supposed to pay me and doesnt.. I am on Medicaid.. but I went for 5 years without insurance (Tried for insurance to pay out of my own pocket they wouldnt take me because of my weight and my bi-polar) paying everything out of our own pocket, including my meds (Which I am bi-polar, have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high triglycerides, acid reflux, a bad ulnar nerve, migraines, and take about 14 pills a day) and now medicaid is putting a cap on 6 rx's a month?? Even they are insane.. it is a bunch of bull and even they are out of their cotton picking mind.. my migraine, high blood pressure and bi-polar meds will be covered but i dont know about much else.. we shall see.. and since I havent received any money at all this month yet, Im stuck.. my mom is paying my copays because I can even afford them.. I know they are doing it to help weed out the system, but come on.. my grandmother is going to quit taking her meds because of this.. She is so upset.. So some of us freeloaders, are just trying to live.. just trying to get by... some of us have no choice...
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24|2|Kandy I am not referring to you. Just saying that there are able bodies people who do milk the system when they can go to work and take of themselves. I know all about bi-polar, my sister-in-law has it too. |flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|05:44:10|12/04/2011|
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Garnette member 19|1|My input from what I have seen.......... :(|driller|harj@frontier.com|00:15:16|12/04/2011|
My sister has no insurance, and was taken to the hospital by ambulance, which she was charged much less
than dad, which had the same ambulance drive to the same hospital. His medicare paid almost triple for
the exact same trip. So my thoughts are, if this continues, sooner or later, these insurance companies
will be very rich from people who do have insurance, their premiums will go up and medicare/medicaid and
all the other government assosicated with health care will be BROKE.
But the way it looks, if they force everyone to have health care, which I doubt, it will still not work.
Too many are dying already because they are either turned down for the care they need, or simply do not
got to the ER because they will be sent home. So if more are dying and continue to die, where will all these soo called peolpe be
insurance companies, if everyone is too sick to work, or even die because they can`t get help with their health issues.
A very sad outlook on the whole thing.
And I think the nurses, doctors, etc will resolve and be very few left to help the ones in need,if in fact they pass the total health care program. :)
No way will it be fair to any, other than the fact that insurance companies will have their pockets dragging the ground.
Last comment, if anyone and everyone can`t have the health care they need they will be on their death beds and there
will be no one to fill the pockets of the insurance companies. :(
~Judy in MI~
20|2|Some Of Your Atititudes Amaze Me.........|QponFreebieQueen|QponFreebieQueen@gmail.com|00:31:26|12/04/2011|
This Time Of Year Reminds Me Of This Well Known Story:
"Scrooge and Marley's, I believe," said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. "Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr. Scrooge, or Mr. Marley?"
"Mr. Marley has been dead these seven years," Scrooge replied. "He died seven years ago, this very night."
"We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner," said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.
It certainly was; for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word "liberality," Scrooge frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.
"At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge," said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."
"Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"
"Nothing!" Scrooge replied.
"You wish to be anonymous?"
"I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
WOW IS ALL I CAN SAY!
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21|3|Thanks for all your opinons -- I really apprecaite it!!|cashcoll|cashcoll@yahoo.com|04:56:28|12/04/2011|
Have a Great Day!
*********************************
GO HOGS GO!!
Woooooooooo, Pig! Sooiee!
25|3|Thanks for posting the scrooge quote. |sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|14:34:31|12/04/2011|
I think this is an issue that all of us feel very strongly about, regardless of what side we are on. It definitely strikes a nerve in folks.
26|4|It does strike a nerve deeply for sure........|driller|harj@frontier.com|14:56:57|12/04/2011|
Right now, this month mom & dad both are in the donut hole. Got their meds delivered by mail, and have to come up (some how)
with $2,000.00 out of pocket. How the heck do elderly survive. They are both on medicare, plus have supplemental insurance.
One of dad`s meds are not covered and is for insulion shots, which are alone over $800.00 , not including the cost of the needles, which
he has to also pay out of pocket.
I told them they should of waited til next month to get their meds, and just go w/o for the month. Very sad. Is not looking
any better. No one, especially anyone involved with the government could care less about ANYONES health. :(
Still say , if everyone gets sick and/or can`t work anymore or dies, because of either poor health insurance, no insurance, etc,
who will fill their pockets then? The insurance companies that is.
~Judy in MI~
23|1|Queenfreebie Queen, read my message above. |flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|05:17:33|12/04/2011|
Last edited on Dec-04-11 at 05:22 AM (Eastern) by 67.247.231.51
Posted on Dec-04-11 at 05:17 AM (Eastern) by 67.247.231.51
Also why is it you think that I free-loaded for awhile. Dr. didn't have to wait that long and beside it's the same as if I paid with a credit card and guess what the Company has to wait to get their pymt. Same thing. Only in '62 things were ethical. And they only had to wait a couple of months, that's the way it was done. And like I said "I" was pretty much the bread winner at that time. Why do you think I had to live off my husband. I in turn actually paid off the bills as I was the one who went back to work before I even had to!
When I use the term "freeloaders" I am referring only to the people who are capable to go to work and choose not to as they system will pay them. I am not referring to people who are unable to work due to medical etc reasons.
There are able body people who can get off the couch and go to work, but it's easier to sit home and collect all the government is willing to dish out.
Right now we have good insurance unlike Canada, or other countries, if we need anything done we get it done right away, not have to wait for months to have surgery.
There has to be a limit of how much can a person give. Taxes as it is, is getting out of hand. Our country is in debt.
Where does it all end?
I've said my peace and gave my thoughts and will not discuss this any further or post anymore to this.
SUBJECT IS CLOSED
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Garnette member 27|2|There's a difference between a hand up and a hand OUT!!! Too many want hand outs!|Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|15:06:42|12/04/2011|
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 27 to GO!)
"You're so open minded that your brain leaked out." - Steve Taylor 29|1|Flapper and Kristy -- I totally agree|whitmarg|robin@whitmannet.com|15:57:58|12/04/2011|
Flapper -- I think it's difficult for some people to realize just how different it was in the 60's and 70's. I recently came across the bill for my youngest brother's birth - he was born in 62 -- it cost $800. $800!!! Total. Doctor, hospital, etc. etc. When I had surgery a year ago, my room was $2400 a DAY!!! Really? That bed cost me 3 times my MONTHLY mortgage -- for a whole house!!!
Insurance companies DO make a ton of money - they always have. Who builds, owns, and occupies the biggest buildings in most cities -- John Hancock, Prudential, Mutual Life, New England Life -- oh what do they have in common -- yeah, insurance.
Joy - I dont think anyone begrudges medical professionals the money they make - and most do not make what they earn, for sure. It is not work I could do and it's hard.
I'm tired of footing the bill for so many people who can't seem to get off their asses and earn some money. These people who are waiting for the "right" job that "pays what they are worth." Well, guess what... when you are sitting at home collecting unemployment from your $75,000 job why not drive down to the local Home Depot or Starbucks or other company hiring and get that insurance coverage so that you don't have to drain all the resources that our taxes should be going toward. Some day, we will all wake up to find out that we need to learn to converse in Chinese because they are going to call in all the debt that the US owes them and they will OWN this country... we are draining our resources. They are NOT endless.
And yes, a hand up is quite different from an hand out.
So many things wrong with this system - not sure we CAN get out of it... 30|2|Exactly. You nailed that one Robin darling|Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|16:02:28|12/04/2011|
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 27 to GO!)
"You're so open minded that your brain leaked out." - Steve Taylor 31|2|ROBIN --- Very Well Said, AMEN!|cashcoll|cashcoll@yahoo.com|16:13:58|12/04/2011|
Have a Great Day!
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GO HOGS GO!!
Woooooooooo, Pig! Sooiee!
32|1|Kristy & Robin, You couldn't have said it any better. Yes, the Doctors and Nurses shelled out a lot of money and time to learn to what they do|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|16:52:36|12/04/2011|
and if it wasn't for them, I surely wouldn't be here today. And probably a lot of others on this board. I live in NY state and you can't believe the welfare recipients that get a handout everyday. One time there was an article in the newspaper and this woman was saying her daughter was the bread winner in the family. And you know why,she had a kid every year and she gets money for each kid she has. And there were quite a few. And each one has a different daddy. Come to NY and you get hand-outs like you wouldn't believe. That's why I say they sit on their lazy asses and we pay. Boy do we pay. Our taxes keep going up here in our county it's unbelieveable. And yes I do believe with our government giving it all away for doing nothing will bury us and the Chinese will take the country over. Like I said they need to say NO. And to stop handing money over to other countries. We should come first, the people who pay their salaries. They should learn how to budget money just we do in our household. Make everyone work and get their own insurance. Sure there are a few exceptions and I would gladly help out those who really needed it. But not for all who sit home and we have to pay for everything they have because we have it when they are able to go out and look for a job!
When money was tight years back, I and another friend took a job delivering penny savers to houses. Between the 2 of us we did over 3,000 papers in 2 days. And that was in rain, snow, nice weather and had to contend with dogs, But by God we did it because we needed the money.
I guess it's just too easy to sit home and collect and they know they will get it whatever they want.
That occupy group is something else too. Go get a job and stop messing my our property that we pay taxes for.
I said I was done but here I am. Just wanted to let you know that I agree with you wholeheartedly.
And you couln't have said it any better too.
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Garnette member 34|2|Occupy people are just trying to solve some of this mess...|sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|23:20:01|12/04/2011|
Most of them DO have jobs. I love that comment. Between us my Dh and I have 4 jobs. We bust our butts, but have trouble making ends meet.
You are part of the 99% too. we all are. why fight among ourselves? It gets us nowhere.
33|1|To sum it up.....|maraj|maraj64@hotmail.com|20:03:36|12/04/2011|
I'll keep it short & simple. But if you want to know who the biggest abusers are of any system & who's getting the biggest chunk of our tax dollars, health care dollars, insurance dollars, pharmaceutical dollars, fuel dollars, etc., you only need to look no further than our elected officials.
It's all a political game w/all the what's-in-it-for-me politicians. If money is the root of all evil, rest assured it gets plenty of political fertalizer. :(
Smile... it makes people wonder what you're up to!
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35|1|This is exactly what those in power want, mission accomplished|cinda68|lacinda68@gmail.com|00:06:23|12/05/2011|
They want class warfare, they want you to hate your rich neighbor, to hate your poor neighbor and all the while they are laughing while they take ALL of our money.
Taxes...were you as generously granted welfare money to the tune of 7.7 Trillion like the banks? Nope, not me either. It isn't the welfare recipients, it is the rich who are stealing from you that is why they *are* rich.
If I sat at a table with 100 dollars in the middle of it with 3 other people and after ten mins, the money was gone...I would guess the guy with the fat pockets took it. Not the poor person with nothing, not the nearly poor person with next to nothing. We need common sense here and to love our neighbors. None of us are getting rich off of our neighbor's tax payments, only those in power are gaining wealth.
We live in a world where money is worshipped. That is why a poor person is hated for getting a meager food stamp allotment, partial rent paid on a shack and subpar medical care that keeps them sick enough to need expensive medications. Pharmaceutical companies are getting plenty rich off of us all. Did you know the price of the materials to make the pills, etc. is less than the cost of the plastic prescription bottle??
Please don't hate your neighbor who is poor, they are not to blame for the national debt. If you want welfare recipients to blame, look to GE for starters. They paid ZERO taxes last year. Yes, zero and they made billions. Are any of us in the same luxury boat? Not at all.
It comes down to love, do you love money and worship it or do you love God and worship Him? If you worship God then you know that His word says that if you have two and another has none, you give the one to them. You sacrifice and lay down your life for others like He did for you. Love. Not the love of money, no...enough of that, let us love one another as God has loved us.
36|2| NO Cinda see that's where you are wrong|Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|00:56:42|12/05/2011|
The rich aren't all politicians. Some are rich because they worked hard. They American way they busted their butts at a job and make a company. They made it successful then the gov't decided to take them more than anyone else just to pay some poor person who doesn't want to work. Where is the incentive to work?? Oh it's gone. The poor sit around while the middle class and rich man work to help them sit some more.
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 27 to GO!)
"You're so open minded that your brain leaked out." - Steve Taylor 37|3|I am not talking about the politicians|cinda68|lacinda68@gmail.com|01:27:57|12/05/2011|
The super rich, the elite that you never see are who I am talking about. The kind of rich that would make the celebrities and even the presidents and heads of state look like peasants. The politicians are merely employees for the mega rich and they control nothing at all, save their acting skills. The real power lies with those who have the most share of the money and it isn't politicians, they are just employees. The mega rich don't work at all, that is why they train us to do it for them via schools and colleges. Much more to say on that topic but I will leave it there.
If hard work equated to success and being rich then why don't the workers at McDonald's own huge houses and expensive cars? "Work hard and you will be rich" is simply a myth handed down from the elitist rich to keep us all...working hard for *them*. You are working hard for the rich, not the poor. The american dream is just that, a dream. People work hard all their lives and end up with nothing. Not even your home with the mortgage paid is yours to keep. All you need to do to find this out is stop paying your property taxes, you will find out who owns your home and it isn't you. It is very sad, to work hard all your life and not really ever own anything. Very sad.
I do understand your frustration, you work hard and you will probably never have what the mega rich have at their disposal. But then again, who cares? It is only money and it matters none, it is of the world that is passing away. I personally don't care if they have the whole world, there is nothing here I want. I am truly a pilgrim here, just passing through. I simply mention that the anger and hatred directed to the poor should be directed to the mega rich, if you must have anger at all (I wouldn't recommend it, it is only money). I pity the mega rich, if the world is all they want...then they are most poor indeed.
Again, the poor don't sit on their butts all day, the majority of the poor are working or they are children under 18 who cannot work at all. There are many disabled people who have a heart to work but no body that allows them to do so. Please stop with the hatred and lies about the poor, it is not godly and it is simply based on propaganda, not the truth. Please do the research yourself to find the truth of the matter and above all, exhibit love. We shall know them by their love.
Enough of my words, here is the word of God:
Deuteronomy 15
7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: 8 But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. 9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. 10 Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. 11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
38|4|You have to remember one thing -----If it wasn't for the rich there would be no companies and noone would have a job. It's because they worked |flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|06:26:53|12/05/2011|
Posted on Dec-05-11 at 06:26 AM (Eastern) by 67.247.231.51
harder and had more brains and work ethics. They knew how to invest and make a company grow and gave people who were willing to work a "job". So you can't blame the rich. It all ends up with the poiiticians who give all our money away to those who sit with their hands out. I'm not saying that all people sit on their butts. I'm saying and I see it here where there are those who will take and not give. True there are people who are willing to go to work. But if you have 50 people in one room you will find probably 35-40 who will want to work and will look for work. But you have the few who find it easier to sit home and take and take. You want to quote from the Bible, remember this. GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES. I'm not agruing about this, just maing what I see and believe. Those who had jobs that made oodles of money now think it's beneath them to work at McDonalds, Burger King etc. So it's easier to sit home and collect unemployment. And there are those that have babies year after year just so they can collect welfare and whatever else this government wants to hand out.
True there are people who aren't able to work, but then there is always Goodwill, etc who hire disabled people, etc and they are proud to have a job. There is something out there for everyone who is willing to work. I've seen on TV where handicap, disable people working and they have a job and pretty happy they have it. So there is always something for people who are in need. And I'm not implying that they shouldn't get help from the government. I have no problem with any of them receiving help of any kind. I am always the first in line to help out with anyone I can help. I help old people getting out of a car if they are having difficulty, or help them in the stores. After all I will someday be in that position and hopefully someone will assist me when I need help getting around. Financially I will not have any problems there in old age. But you have to stop and think that God doesn't expect able bodies people to sit and milk the system as there a lot of people that do and you may not think so, but believe me, they do. Just watch the news.
If you look at the places that have Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for needy people. I look at these people and none of them are skinny, they are all heavy. If they aren't eating why are they so heavy. You can get food stamps, etc so easy here. Saw a woman at customer service in a Tops store and she had on so much gold on neck, arms and all her fingers and you what she was in line to get her food stamps. She was dressed to kill. That to me is milking the system.
Going to end with GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES. (not talking about the ones that really ill)
Would also like to add this: Look at all the illegal immigrants who are here milking the system, pay no taxes yet they get everything paid for. And we keep letting them in.
Government has to change to improve this country. Politician may go in clean but they sure change after they are in.
What's it going to be like when my Grandchildren are my age. It sure won't be easy. I've seen so much change in my lifetime compared to when I was younger. Your word and handshake was good and meant something. Like one of the traders mentioned it all seems to be about money nowdays. Sad what the world is coming to. Good thing I'm not God because I would surely be upset with the way things are now.
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Garnette member 39|5|Good post Flapper.. You said it all!|pattyo|pattyolc@aol.com|07:04:37|12/05/2011|
Bless you
40|5|Right on the mark Flapper!|kellysp6637|frugalk76@aol.com|07:30:26|12/05/2011|
I cringe thinking about what our world will be like years from now, if things don't change now. It's almost as if the hardworking are being penalized.....
I'm tired of having MORE and MORE of my taxes taken just because I get up in the morning and go to work.
I have depression, anxiety and joint issues.....I've been a single mom, I've been a married mom, etc and no matter how I felt or feel, I push myself out of bed EVERY day because I had to to put a roof and food on the table for my child and myself.
I recently got a monetary award from work.....and I got to keep HALF of it....the other half went to taxes....IN ADDITION to my regular taxes taken out....
Am I grateful for that award? Yes....but I'm the one pushing myself to the limit to earn it....why should I have to pay even MORE in taxes and give half of it away?
I'm sorry......it's frustrating and tiring. 44|5|"God helps those who help themselves" is not in the bible|cinda68|lacinda68@gmail.com|12:08:09|12/05/2011|
"God helps those who help themselves" is not in scripture. If you do have a valid biblical argument that proves we should not help the poor, please cite your references.
Also, many of the illegal immigrants do work and they do the jobs that most Americans think they are too good to do. Regarding immigrants and strangers:
Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Ezekiel 22:29
The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.
Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
41|2|Cinda, you're absolutely correct!!|Sharon|corvettelady@lavabit.com|07:51:30|12/05/2011|
Everything she's saying is on the mark. The super-rich elites, globalist, bankers, corporations of the world including members of our Congress are plundering us all including the middle class and poor folks. The super-rich such as Warren Buffet pay ZERO taxes! Majority of members of Congress are MILLIONAIRES with their own special medicare, social security, benefits, etc. The taxes we pay today is the most ever in History and we will continue to get taxed even more. Our govt. wants to give us the VAT tax (shhhhh, it's a secret!!) which people in Europe pay and they're completely broke. My 26 y/o daughter who was here for a visit couple weeks ago works in the Netherlands and told me they are taxed so much, including VAT tax that she barely has any leftover to survive on. She can't even buy clothes they're so expensive, so took her shopping for winter clothes while she was here. After living there almost 5 years is planning to move back to the States next summer. Look at all the criminality going on with the Federal Reserve continuing to print FAKE money and we have to pay for it! We owe trillions of dollars and we will never be able to pay it back!
The real backbone of keeping our economy going in our country for many years are the small businesses including my husband, not the large corporations. My husband ran a computer school from 1971 to 2004 after finally shutting down because of the restrictive red tape laws, high taxes, dealing with stupid state regulators etc., Our states/govt., are not looking out for small business people, the more you earn, the more they tax you. We are the slaves to the system.
One more thing of importance. Our crony capitalist / state socialism economic system is run by corrupt politicians and banks. Both political parties are guilty, it is beyond a Democrat or Republican issue. Americans have become tax slaves to these people who use socialism to enrich themselves and steal our wealth. How do we fix this? End the Federal Reserve System and return to honest money. End the Marxist income tax and let people keep the money they earn. Downsize government. Return to a truly free market system where anyone can open a business, instead of having banks and big corporations preventing entrepreneurs from competing with them. Neither political party will adopt these ideas, time for a new political party. 42|3|Right on Sharon. |flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|10:02:37|12/05/2011|
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Garnette member 43|4|Flapper, I agree with everything you said!|Sharon|corvettelady@lavabit.com|11:31:08|12/05/2011|
nt 45|3|Sharon, thank you!|cinda68|lacinda68@gmail.com|12:16:35|12/05/2011|
I don't fault anyone for the opinions they hold about these matters, it is a constant flood of lies from the mainstream media that they believe, to their own hurt. The truth is so well hidden from the public and everyone is kept very occupied with the TV and entertaiment venues. There is a reason they call it TV "programs" and "channels". Our family finally got sick of the daily lies on TV and threw it out about 3 years ago, our home is very nice and peaceful without the "lie box" on.
All I can do is pray that more and more people will have discernment and come to hate the lies they are told on a daily basis. Each and every day, from one news show to another, from one tv show to another, it is all hate, hate and more hate. Reminds me of the book 1984, the part where they all watched a screen and had 15 mins of hate each day. So sad to me. 48|4|TY Cinda. You said a whole lot of what I would have said. |sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|13:57:22|12/05/2011|
So I didn't have to! Mainstream media sells advertising first and then writes and tells stories around those advertisers. Everything is seen through very carefully applied lenses.
And I say that as a journalism junkie. 50|4|Cinda, you got that right about the MSM....|Sharon|corvettelady@lavabit.com|15:14:00|12/05/2011|
They are controlled by the elites using TV as a tool for us to believe their lies/half-truths. Great way to spew propaganda & mind control on the masses! My family also no longer watch TV - I rather read books instead:)
However, we are exactly living through George Orwell's novel "1984". As I've stated before, the world we live in is an illusion. However, through alternate news on the Internet, more and more people are waking up to what's really going on finding out the ugly truth of what the Globalists agenda is, who are up to no good for all of humanity. 46|1|Let me ask if a person who made a decent living becomes unemployed was to do what you suggest get a job at|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|13:04:06|12/05/2011|
mcdonalds or wendy's for the sake of having a job wouldn't they still lose everything they have and still end up needing a hand out? My husband has lost his job a few times over the years if he had just settled for mcdonalds or wendy's so he could have a job we would have been on the street People can not just take a job because it is there it doesn't always work that way 47|2|Thank you Tina! |sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|13:52:24|12/05/2011|
I've been stewing over some of those words for the same reason. Back in our "good days" (economic wise, every day is a good day no matter what we have), Jason made $18 an hour, but now the best he can find is $11. During the times between jobs if he had taken a minimum wage job, nearly all of those jobs will not even give you 40 hrs a week. So he's supposed to try to support a family on $7.++ an hour with maybe 30 hours a week? We wouldn't be able to make rent and utilities on that. So while he was unemployed (this was a couple years ago now) he volunteered around the community to build up his resume and make more contacts within the community. Those contacts led to paying jobs. Now he has three and between all of them it is more than full time. We're able to squeak by, thankfully! And before someone asks, "why don't you work too?", I do and have. I've always managed to get writing gigs, cleaning jobs, etc. Whatever I could find to help pay those same bills. It isn't from lack of effort that we are economically challenged.
But thinking back to the time when he was not working, had he taken the first minimum wage job that came along, we would have wound up homeless. We lived so close to the edge back then anyway. It was only the matter of one wrong step.
I'll never be sorry that he kept looking and didn't lose faith that something more promising would turn up!
Tina, your point was so valid! Thank you, my friend! :) 51|2|If someone became unemployed from a prestigious job and his unemployment ran out. Wouldn't Mc Donald or Burger King at least bring in some|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|15:44:10|12/05/2011|
money. It's better then sitting idle. And at least it's some money especially when the unemployment isn't coming in anymore. At least it's money coming in until another job comes along. Believe me, I did my share of cleaning houses, selling magazines over the phone at night after I get home from my job. And while my husband is in some state (he had to go from state to state) selling Pearl Polish, and sending money home. I delivered penny savers, did ironing. Wasn't afraid to do anything to make some money. Husband was laid off so much from where he worked but had to stay to get senority and it took a few years. But we both were able to make money and still worked when I got home from work.
I would say there was a work ethic there and we needed money to survive. No hand-out. No food stamps, we did it ourselves. You know we could go on and on, but the fact still remains in order to survive you have to take menial jobs until something better comes along. A lot of my friends kids have moved from Buffalo because they could make money in other states and they do. The thing is survival. And sometimes that's what life is. Survival. With government sending jobs to other countries was a bad thing to do. However, some places was abused. Here at Bethlehem Steel, employees were making a ridiculous salary and they bragged how they slept on the job and had 13-15 week vacation. Well, guess what, company moved to another country. We did this to ourselves. And thanks to the unions the employees would go on strike.
This is the same company that gave them a job. Well now the jobs are gone. With poor countries making so little of a wage, these companies will stay there. We need a President and government with enough gumption to turn this all around and so far, all I've seen in the past few years are whimps. When someone asks me who do you want to vote for, my response is None of the above. And that's the way it's been for quite a few years.
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Garnette member 56|3|Ok so now you added the "when the unemployment runs out" he should get a job at Mcdonalds it wouldn't matter he would still lose it all |teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|16:46:43|12/05/2011|
and end up on the streets now wouldn't he? 58|4|A guy I know lost his "prestigious" job due to a heart attack. Now he works at a car wash. He lost everything...his house, his vehicle, etc, but he is working at the car wash.|Ranalt|ainebailey@gmail.com|17:32:21|12/05/2011|
Life is like a cup of tea,
It's all in how you make it.
Lisa
49|1|There is a difference between the poor, disabled, elderly, widowed, orphans ect...........|Quietwaters|Quietwaters39@hotmail.com|15:01:18|12/05/2011|
and those who make the choice to be idle, and not work or abuse the system, allowing that to continue hurts those who really need help, and should have it.
In 2 Thessalonians, Paul states, "if a man will not work, he shall not eat," he encourages them to earn the bread they eat. This is not a new problem.
It doesn't say, if a man can not work, but if he makes the choice to be idle with his time, not using his time wisely, not being busy, but a busybody.
************
Who then will pay for insurance, welfare, and all those lovely things the idle, lazy ones get. This doesn't mean the disabled or those who are very ill shouldn't get some help. What kind of help are our vets getting, they go off to war and come back, with no jobs and no money and they gave their lives in some cases. Now those are the ones who deserve it the most. And the ones who lost their lives, what about their families, there is noone there to support them now.
Those that really deserve assistance don't get any or they don't want it and those who can find any type of job take all the assistance the can get.
I'm done. I'm so fed up with this government, politics, the system. And there's not a thing I can do about it. No matter how much I complain or say.
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Garnette member 54|3|I sincerely hope you never find yourself in need of the help, the "lazy and idle" get. Wow, that is harsh. Tell a newly single mother who leaves an abusive relationship lazy and idle. Perhaps she should have stayed. Tell the father who works 70 + hours at two companies to pay the bills that his young daughter is just going to have to suffer because his company no longer offers insurance. Tell the elderly lady who doesn't get food stamps but is having trouble choosing between her RX's and food. I could go on and on. NOT EVERYONE who is on some type of assistance is LAZY and IDLE.|Ranalt|ainebailey@gmail.com|16:18:41|12/05/2011|
As stated a few times in this post, this is want the mainstream wants, in fighting over something as simple as help. Sure there are abuses, but there is abuse everywhere, from the Politicians down to the welfare level.
I am so sick and tired of the government, the in fighting, etc. People need to go old school and start helping one another as they did during my grandparent's time.
Life is like a cup of tea,
It's all in how you make it.
Lisa
55|4|As I have state, I have no problem helping the seniors, who are older, the really sick, It's the ones who are able bodied and sit and home and except handouts. I don't just read about it. I see it. |flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|16:39:43|12/05/2011|
I'm not being cruel, or harsh or want to make harsh statement. I'm just telling it like it is. The older people, women whose husbands walk out of a marriage for some other women or whatever the reason, people who really need assistance, should get it. I have no problem with it. Hell if I had all sorts of money, I would send it all the traders on this board alone to help out . I try to help out some of you, when I have a few dollars, I make sure I get to help some of you. I don't consider that a hand-out. Nor do I feel as if I'm giving a hand-out. It comes from the bottom of my heart. Just wish I could help more. But the fact is I still feel strongly that people who can go and look for some type of work can make money. Year back, my very dear friend of 35 years had her husband walk out for another woman and he was tired of being a husband and a Father. Well, this woman supported herself and her 2 sons with no help from him what-so-ever. My hat goes off to her a million times. She did it and did it by herself. I give her a lot of credit. She even managed to buy a car. And she worked her way up that she has money invested, drives an Audi, (brand New), I can't afford one. She pulled herself up from nothing to being on top of the world. So it can be done. After all this is America.
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Garnette member 52|1|Tina -- again, the difference between a hand out and a hand up!!!|whitmarg|robin@whitmannet.com|15:51:19|12/05/2011|
.. 57|2|I live on SS Disability and it's not fun at all!|cashcoll|cashcoll@yahoo.com|17:28:15|12/05/2011|
I have kept my mouth shut but just had to something. I was disabled in 2000. I was only 35yrs old and married. I had no idea what we were going to do. Long story short we had to move in with one of my sister's for 5 years. Don't know what we would of done had my family not been there.
I could not understand WHY at my age, this was happening. I really felt bad that I had to go on disability, I felt like I was robbing people of their money. Yet I very very lucky today to be able to have it--other wise there's no telling where we would be. Today I am still unable to work due to my medical problems and there's nothing they can do to help my main problem which is my back. Living in 24/7 pain and taking narcotics is no JOY ride. I had always seen myself as someone who would be working until I was at the age to retire.
The elderly and many people disabled live are a very TIGHT budget. Yes, you have to make decisions like do I get the food we need or my med's, I take alot of med's and the cost can be very HIGH!
There are those that TAKE advantage of being disabled and I hate to say this but I have a FAMILY MEMBER (not blood related, thank goodness) that is on disablity and they are taking advantage of it! It just makes me SICK to my stomach. It's NOT right for someone to get on disability and yet go out and do things they say they can't do, as of today they are reviewing their case and it was to be approved back in September but now they have to see SSD doctor for a "physical". At least they are making sure that if you can't work that you are telling the truth. I know with disability the goverment has gotten stricter when it comes to seeing if one is really disabled.
Those people who do take advantage of it SHOULD be stopped and find a job. Lord knows I wish I could work, I sure would be making more money to help Todd & I out and we would be able to do things outside of the house. During the past 10 years we have NEVER been on a vacation together due to lack of funds. Todd have an excellent job but when you figure in the medical cost for me and my med's it can HIT HOME HARD!!
JMO
Teresa
Have a Great Day!
*********************************
GO HOGS GO!!
Woooooooooo, Pig! Sooiee!
59|1|A must to look at. Interesting|flapper|joyphalen@yahoo.com|18:38:50|12/05/2011|
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Garnette member 60|2|I'm fairly certain they will go to prison...|sunriver|sunriver@gmail.com|18:51:49|12/05/2011|
I could pull up photos of some of the HUD slum lord houses that people rent around here, but what's the point? You kept saying you were done, but it seems you just want to go on and on... 61|2| I don't see that happening in my area......|maraj|maraj64@hotmail.com|19:53:24|12/05/2011|
There aren't too many million dollar houses around here that I'm aware of. Unless you count the state capitol building. Or, the 1 lonely million dollar house built by the former senior VP of the one bank here in town, who btw, also got caught dipping his hand in the proverbial cookie jar. He was nailed by the Feds just a couple yrs. ago for embezzling monies from the bank's patrons for 10 yrs., basically since the day he was appointed the senior VP position. He'd worked there since right out of high school, for 25 yrs., so I guess he got too comfortable, & I doubt he'd even get a job at McDonald's now. No drug, alcohol or gambling addictions; just wanting to live lavishly & plain 'ol greed. :(
I know several people/families around here who are on fixed incomes. They don't expect handouts, they struggle & they hate living month to month, because of the stigma. They're already at a disadvantage yet there are some who keep kicking at them, treating them as 2nd class citizens because for 1 reason or another, they can no longer work so are no longer considered "productive" citizens paying payroll taxes. They're treated like sh*t & it drives me nuts. But what really gets to me is the irony - these same "2nd class & non-productive" citizens are the nicest, most honest people you could meet who don't bother anyone, don't look down their nose at anyone & they don't begrudge anyone anything. They'd give you the shirt off their back even tho financially, they may not have a pot to pi$$ in.
Who do you suppose I'd want to be my neighbor & friend?
Smile... it makes people wonder what you're up to!
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