Could REALLY use some help, before we contact a lawyer who wants a retainer
THANKS in advance,
Shel
1|1|Check w/ Saras_Mom, she has stated she worked for an attorney and has had some great input on other issues, not sure if she is familiar with RE law in particular....|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|17:02:27|07/15/2009|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 2|1|I'm a Real Estate Paralegal |spilleliz|spilleliz@gmail.com|17:58:30|07/15/2009|
Maybe I can help
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3|2|Thanks, it is about a property line...|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|20:23:57|07/15/2009|
Here is our issue in a nutshell... We have been having problems with the neighbors who rent... they got a pitt bull puppy in January and let the dog run (and potty) in our yard. The house is for sale and the landlord found out about the dog but won't evict these people because he "thinks" it will sell better if a family is living it in.
So I decided our best defense (no pun intended) is a fence and set out to measure the property line bordering that neighbor. On our other side, the neighbor has these stakes that were put in by a survey company (legit markings in my opinion) because of issues on her other side. When I went to mark our property line, the math was off... so I asked my dad to look at our paperwork from settlement and measure again.
It turns out that the neighbor's driveway is almost two feet onto our property; and their garage is over three feet onto our property. My dad read over the deed etc to see if there was a legal "right of way" or I think he called it an "eavesment"?? There is nothing in any paperwork that gives any right to use our land.
I am upset and am not sure what to do, should I just get a lawyer? I was going to call the actual owner to get an approval to build our fence on the property line... we are required to get approval. If he would say no, we would then have to do a one foot setback. However, given that the property line is actually ON their driveway and IN their garage, that one foot setback is not even possible as they are on our property.
Any ideas? THANKS a million!!!!
Shel
4|3|We had a similar situation with our neighbors' garage....we contacted the county assessor's office and requested a survey of the property line....they did so, and since the neighbor's garage encroached on the easement by over 2 feet, the neighbor had to pay for the survey and was fined....now, their garage isnt over our property line, so I dont know what your course of action could be if they did indeed go over onto your property with the garage and driveway...but you might be able to start with the assessor's office instead of a lawyer.|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|20:27:45|07/15/2009|
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
--Thomas Jefferson--
5|4|great advice Joy|petunia1|sweetpea39@comcast.net|20:50:58|07/15/2009|
I would definitely do this now while the place is for sale, settle things before someone new moves in. 6|5|Great idea thanks :) Yes, definitely before it sells|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|21:01:11|07/15/2009|
we want to get the fence up quickly due to the dog. However, the price of the house just went down $10,000 so we are hoping someone buys it. We did not want to welcome the new owner by putting up a fence; if we are building it while it is for sale, that is different as the person won't think we are rude to them.
Thanks so much!!! 7|6|You're welcome :) We had a request form we had to fill out, and I don't recall if there was a fee to file the request/complaint, but if there was it was minimal....we have property line pins in our yards, so we were able to measure for ourselves to be sure before we made a complaint....are you sure you dont have property line pins (they are metal pin about a half inch thick, ours were located by the curb in the terrace property)??|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|21:06:07|07/15/2009|
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
--Thomas Jefferson--
8|7|Best thing is to try and work things out with the neighbor|spilleliz|spilleliz@gmail.com|22:08:27|07/15/2009|
I actually have a similiar situation at my job with a client who just sold her house. Money was held in escrow until she was able to get the neighbor to sign a Boundary Line agreement. The neighbors weren't all that co-operative and it ended up taking about 6 months before they signed it. Of course every state and town have their own laws when it comes to anything. Best thing is get the neighbor to agree and get it in writing from him
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9|8|Yes, "pins" but I called them "stakes"|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|07:27:15|07/16/2009|
That is actually what I used for the two extreme corners of my property. The other pins I used were inserted by a survey company... for checkpoints for my neighbor to use when she built a fence on just one side (not touching us) of her property. In fact, we would only fence one side and then a small area for our kids.
We would love to work things out with the current owner, but don't know what options we have at this point. I highly doubt he will offer to move this driveway and garage! This is over most of the property line, in other words one side of our half acre is minus two to three feet. That adds up to a wide strip of our yard they are using at this time. My hubby wants to go out this weekend and measure also to see what we are truly dealing with as far as space. I don't want a war with the owner but am not sure what resolution there would be for this situation.
We would not sign anything without a lawyer, so am hoping this does not get too expensive on our part. 10|9|Now about the dog Have to called animal control Puppy or not I wouldn't want that dog any where near my kids|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|07:40:51|07/16/2009|
>Posted on Jul-16-09 at 07:27 AM (Eastern)
>by 68.80.182.56That is actually what I
>used for the two extreme corners
>of my property. The other
>pins I used were inserted by
>a survey company... for checkpoints for
>my neighbor to use when she
>built a fence on just one
>side (not touching us) of her
>property. In fact, we would
>only fence one side and then
>a small area for our kids.
>
>We would love to work things out
>with the current owner, but don't
>know what options we have at
>this point. I highly doubt
>he will offer to move this
>driveway and garage! This is
>over most of the property line,
>in other words one side of
>our half acre is minus two
>to three feet. That adds
>up to a wide strip of
>our yard they are using at
>this time. My hubby wants
>to go out this weekend and
>measure also to see what we
>are truly dealing with as far
>as space. I don't want
>a war with the owner but
>am not sure what resolution there
>would be for this situation.
>We would not sign anything without a
>lawyer, so am hoping this does
>not get too expensive on our
>part.
16|3|My Two cents...|Sara_s_Mom|IClipCoupons@gmail.com|17:19:27|07/16/2009|
Did you happen to get title insurance when you bought? How long ago was the garage erected? Driveway? The thing is is that boundary line disputes are kind of tricky. Some people even move those stakes. Were they iron bars? I've seen deeds conveying property from the middle of a cucumber tree to God knows where.
My take:
If the garage was recently built, was a building location survey required? I've seen people build in the wrong spot and have to tear down and move it, though many people will find a way to work out the purchase of a few extra feet. That, though, requires a survey and likely approval from your mortgage holder. They would need to approve any sale. That could be tricky because they could agree and then require you put the money down on the principal. Or they could refuse - and could if you didn't have a lot or any equity due to house values falling in your area.
Sometimes, though, an easement doesn't necessarily show up on a deed. They could be back in the chain of title and covered under the (IMO lazy) generic phrase of the property being subject to easements, rights of way, etc.
Some states even have a thing called adverse possession - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession - basically after someone has used your property for a specified long period of time (PA me thinks it was 21 years?) and you didn't reassert your claim, then you are just out of luck. This really comes into play with things like driveways and right to egress. (Never buy land locked property w/out a Right of way in and out!)
Did you happen to use an attorney to close your house? If you used one, check in with them there. If not and you used a title insurance company, go in and ask for a copy of your title search. I asked for a copy when we closed on our house and it has come in handy.
I do empathize. I do suggest that you NOT erect a fence until you have a concrete survey of some sort so you know where your boundary lines are. The thing about fences is this:
1) If you run it down the property line, you better darn well know where it is.
2) If you run it down the property line, you better have a way to maintain it without going on someone else's property.
3) If you don't run it down the property line, you should definitely keep mowing the portion of your lawn that isn't fenced in. (Refer to adverse possession above)
4) Remember if you have a fence and your neighbor pisses you off, school bus yellow or fluorescent orange can always be painted on your fence - on the side that faces them! They don't get to choose the paint color.
5) Do leave room to maintain the other side of your fence - here's why: My neighbors didn't and came onto my property to cut down some trees. The problem was that they were MY trees. They didn't want them there because the roots would ruin their fence. Guess they should have thought of that before they put the fence up, huh?
BUT here's the kicker: If you are aware of a boundary line problem, you kind of have to take care of it if you sell. You would have to disclose it to any potential borrowers (and it could scare some away). IT could even come back to bite you in the butt if you refi'd now that you are aware of it.
Other possibility: Are you sure your dad is measuring correctly? I know that my boss used to read descriptions and then walk and turn around to make sure all of the ends connected. Surveyors can and do make errors and when the deed was retyped, it is possible someone didn't proof it or hit the wrong key. You'd need to compare current description with the prior deeds to make sure they match too.
That's all I got... sorry so verbose! Good luck! And if the garage was built fairly recently, do visit the people in your town who issue building permits.
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11|1|teener, I have done that already :) great minds think alike|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|09:01:14|07/16/2009|
The township said it is hard to enforce a leash law; I have to call every time I see the dog in our yard but to date the police have taken over an hour to get here (I understand it is not a priority). They only caught the dog once and gave the neighbor a warning. Each additional time they get "caught" is a $25.00 fine... but they don't care.
I have gotten to the point where I only take my kids in our yard when I know the neighbors are sleeping (during the day, as only one adult there works)... and am very careful to take the boys in the house as soon as I see the dog. My hubby had to kick it off his motorcycle one day, before it could scratch his paint: we called on that too and the police did not even respond (ever).
It is frustrating, which is why we decided to find a way to afford to build a fence... now this property line issue!! 12|2|Take pics and even video ) on your cell phone if you have to) keep a record then keep a record of your calls to the police or animal control then I think you can actually file a complaint and go to town court|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|09:12:10|07/16/2009|
I've seen to many tiomes on those Judge shows what happens when people have worse problems keeping records are key good luck 13|3|Thanks teener :) Hubby wants to install a security camera|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|09:30:50|07/16/2009|
that saves to a hard drive (he has a computer in his garage already on our network)... especially because the dog chewed up one of our cushions on our patio furniture. There was stuffing all over our yard and their yard; yet they denied that their dog did it. They refused to replace the cushion, and I won't get a new one until we have a fence or we think it could happen again. They even let it in our sandbox, there were paw prints. They claim it was our dog... who is so much smaller than their pit bull that her paws would not be that huge; plus we keep her on a leash and no where near the sandbox. 14|4|Well at least you can thank God it's a pit bull and not a lion gosh knows that would make a mess in the sandbox lol lol j/k lol Yup get the camera pictures speak volumes|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|09:48:22|07/16/2009|
>Posted on Jul-16-09 at 09:30 AM (Eastern)
>by 68.80.182.56that saves to a hard
>drive (he has a computer in
>his garage already on our network)...
>especially because the dog chewed up
>one of our cushions on our
>patio furniture. There was stuffing
>all over our yard and their
>yard; yet they denied that their
>dog did it. They refused
>to replace the cushion, and I
>won't get a new one until
>we have a fence or we
>think it could happen again.
>They even let it in our
>sandbox, there were paw prints.
>They claim it was our dog...
>who is so much smaller than
>their pit bull that her paws
>would not be that huge; plus
>we keep her on a leash
>and no where near the sandbox.
>
15|5|Ha ha, a lion... too funny :)|couponshelmd|couponshel@comcast.net|10:34:52|07/16/2009|
Thanks for that laugh!!!! I love your sense of humor! I am trying to stay positive that we will find a safe solution for the kids to play outside :) In the mean time, they use our front porch to "chalk" as much as they want, while the dog is out back. 17|1|I replied in the middle, sorry!|Sara_s_Mom|IClipCoupons@gmail.com|17:20:01|07/16/2009|
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