This is really scary and he's going to do it if he's elected. After reading this, I just want to cry! America is over as we know it! Sorry if this offends anyone, but I feel everyone especially those paying taxes should know about this! Sharon:)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10152008/news/politics/obama_fires_a_robin_hood_warning_shot_133685.htm 1|1|welcome to socialist america.. sigh |Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|10:52:35|10/15/2008|
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 28 to GO!) 2|1|I agree, people who have acheived success are going to end up paying for those who don't want to try|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|11:11:44|10/15/2008|
Whatever happened to the idea that if you worked hard, got an education, and saved your money you could buy your dream house, or be a millionaire? I believe everyone still CAN do this. I taught classes for students who had recently lost jobs at at community college here. So many of them did not care to improve their education so they could get a better job--and they were getting 2 years of education (so basically an associate's degree) paid for by the government. However, they just wanted to sit back and draw their money. Too many people think the government owes them something, which is not the case. Whatever happened to the Democratic stance of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"? JFK had this idea right--we are here to serve our country, not for our country to serve us.
I don't think that people should expect to have the house they want immediately, or the car they want immediately. You should have to save and scrimp for it. Unfortunately, we have never lived through hard times like our grandparents did. We have grown up with things handed to us for nothing down or on credit. Our parents and grandparents had to pay cash for what they bought. When you pay cash, no one can take your car or house away because IT'S PAID FOR! That previous generation learned to live within its means, and I think that's a hard lesson that our generation needs to learn as well.
Just my opinion,
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates 3|2|? so noone should own a home unless they can pay cash?|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|11:33:23|10/15/2008|
>Posted on Oct-15-08 at 11:11 AM (Eastern)
>by 71.49.56.231Whatever happened to the idea
>that if you worked hard, got
>an education, and saved your money
>you could buy your dream house,
>or be a millionaire? I
>believe everyone still CAN do this.
> I taught classes for students
>who had recently lost jobs at
>at community college here. So
>many of them did not care
>to improve their education so they
>could get a better job--and they
>were getting 2 years of education
>(so basically an associate's degree) paid
>for by the government. However,
>they just wanted to sit back
>and draw their money. Too
>many people think the government owes
>them something, which is not the
>case. Whatever happened to the
>Democratic stance of "Ask not what
>your country can do for you,
>but what you can do for
>your country"? JFK had this
>idea right--we are here to serve
>our country, not for our country
>to serve us.
>I don't think that people should expect
>to have the house they want
>immediately, or the car they want
>immediately. You should have to
>save and scrimp for it.
>Unfortunately, we have never lived through
>hard times like our grandparents did.
> We have grown up with
>things handed to us for nothing
>down or on credit. Our
>parents and grandparents had to pay
>cash for what they bought.
>When you pay cash, no one
>can take your car or house
>away because IT'S PAID FOR!
>That previous generation learned to live
>within its means, and I think
>that's a hard lesson that our
>generation needs to learn as well.
>
>Just my opinion, Shelia
>
>"They say that we are better educated
>than our parents' generation. What they
>mean is that we go to
>school longer. They are not the
>same thing."---Douglas Yates
8|3|No, but they should have to pay more for a down payment|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|13:22:32|10/15/2008|
Years ago, foreclosures were almost unheard of--because people had to actually come up with money for a down payment. Many times, you had to put down 25% of the value of the home as a down payment. Now, foreclosures are rampant because people got themselves into houses they truly couldn't afford. No, I don't think people have a RIGHT to own a home--home ownership is a priviledge, and has always been part of the American dream. It's not a dream anymore if everyone can do it.
I don't believe that you should have to pay for your house in cash--although if you could, I think you should. The interest that you are allowed to write off does not offset the amount you could make if that money was invested--even at a small interest rate. My mom, for one, who is now 62 years old, has only once had debt, and that was for a mortgage. She bought a house for herself when she was 40 and divorcing, and since she'd never bought anything on credit--always cash--she had a hard time getting a home loan even though she was able to put over 25% of the value down. To me, that's laughable--someone who's never had debt is not allowed to get a loan, but someone who has credit card debt out the wazoo is allowed to buy a house with no money down. You tell me which one makes sense.
Our generation is so used to having everything they want handed to them. We are not entitled to anything. We should all have to work for it, in my opinion.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
10|4|sheila, i don't know what generation you are speaking of....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|13:33:08|10/15/2008|
but i have NEVER, and i repeat NEVER had anything i wanted "handed" to me. i have worked very hard to get what i have and i am damn proud of it.
the problem i see here is you are generalizing everyone into one or two catagories and taking out only people you want too. that is not fair.
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20|4|Well I'm proud to say I used FHA to get my first house sold my car for $1500 for the down payment stayed in it less than two years and moved up|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|16:07:52|10/15/2008|
did that again and again and again to where we are today I hope you realize that not everyone can own a home like you said if you truley believe that than drive through a city near you and see how many don't/can't and can hardley afforn the roof over their head that they rent and even in todays world a "education" does not mean you will be employed the rest of your life and will afford you everythig you want or need 23|5|Yes, but in prior generations you would have had to save more|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|16:36:33|10/15/2008|
That $1500 you put down was probably like 1% of the value of your loan. Not so in previous generations. Quote:
"Also in 1934 the National Housing Act established the Federal Housing Authority (FHA). The FHA was established to do two things: to create jobs in the very depressed housing industry and to repair, modernize, and replace the existing stock of homes in order to bring them up to the standard of the times. It was a complete success with new construction starts going from 93,000 in 1933 to 530,000 in 1940. It also established a new norm for the home mortgage. Requiring a down-payment of 10% and a careful credit check the new FHA backed loans extended the mortgage to twenty-five and thirty year terms."
And that was the government-backed, less expensive program. Other banks and lending institutions were often charging 25% or more as a down payment, and the repayment period was shorter, too.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
4|2|yeah and what about the people who HAVE gotten better educations and HAVE worked and strived to get "somewhere" |pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|11:35:31|10/15/2008|
but are held back for reasons such as the company they work for either can't or won't move them up? my husband has been in the environmental clean up business for 16 years and just last year he was FINALLY promoted to a foreman position. the other 2 companies he worked for wouldn't move him up, why? we believe it is because he is a "work horse" and why would a company move someone who can do the leg work of 2 men into a position where he no longer had to do that type of manual labor.
my husband has 18 different certificates in various environmental fields, as well as a college education and was 41 when he bought his FIRST home. we scrimp and save and do the very best we can and try NOT to utilze government programs that we don't NEED. we don't collect food stamps although we could, we don't have our child on a governmental health plan although we could, heck, i have no health insurance because i can't find a company that will cover me WITHOUT maternity coverage. i CAN'T afford $700 a month for health insurance, but what i can do is try my darndest to stay healthy and hope that i don't need to see a dr. for anything serious anytime soon.
i guess what i'm saying is this............ for years and years big money has gotten tax break after tax break yet when someone comes along and says, oh no, this isn't fair so we're going to raise your rates and try to make sure that you're not screwing the government AND the rest of the american people out of a bunch of money you SHOULD be paying everyone gets mad.
it really doesn't matter WHO gets into office in january, things ARE going to change and they are going to change for EVERYONE! be it good or bad they ARE going to change.
i don't see much difference in obama's tax plans or mccain's, they are simply using different words. that's all
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9|3|Two suggestions|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|13:26:11|10/15/2008|
Your husband should get a different job. If he's not being paid what he's worth--leave--even if it means moving across the country to get a different job. Don't say you can't--you just don't want to.
You or your husband could have a job with health benefits if you looked hard enough. Again, moving to a different area with lower cost of living could save your family lots of money. I'm just not one of those people who believes in CAN'T--because you or anyone else CAN. If you are not actively doing something to better yourself by finding another job, going back to school, moving to a different area, etc. then you don't want to be better.
Sounds harsh, and I know I'll catch flack for it, but hey, sometimes the truth hurts.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
11|4|Sheila I see your point to an extent...|sunriver|lithiasalt@cheerful.com|13:34:03|10/15/2008|
But there are job losses all across the country and it still takes money to move. So saying that someone "can" but "won't is short sighted IMHO. 12|4|shelia, who are you to tell me that it's .....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|14:08:04|10/15/2008|
not that i "can't" it's that i "won't" move?
4 years ago we moved to another state so my husband could be paid more.
as for right now my husband is very happy with his position and his pay so ther eis no reason for us to move at all.
and we couldn't move anyway. after my husband being sick and his truck beaking down our savings has been depleated to less than $1,000 so no, moving is NOT an option for us.
perhaps you could start making your points a little nicer in the future, right now, they sound nasty and i don't appreciate being spoken to that way when you don't know our situation.
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65|5|Right On, Pussecat!!!!|missy|lovetotrade@hotmail.com|11:21:23|10/20/2008|
I have been reading these posts, and some messages just go to show how insensitive some people are, to the conditions that other people live in, through NO fault of their own.
I also think, that since moving is known to be a MAJOR life stress, not everyone is WELL or ABLE enough to do it.
And what about FAMILY TIES!? Should someone move away from aging parents, schools where their kids have a network of friends etc etc. IMHO, ONLY in the most dire of circumstances should anyone even consider moving away from supportive family, friends, their HOME, and supportive community, schools and churches.
I have a degree in Crisis Management, and believe me, I KNOW just how traumatic a move can be on all concerned. You can't just pick up and go, leaving your whole LIFE behind, especially if you have aging parents and/or kids.
Wow, I just can't believe how self-righteous, judgemental, insensitive, and seemingly totally lacking in empathy some people are!!!!!
Anyways, just MHO.
Kathryn 13|4|as for health benefits......|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|14:10:21|10/15/2008|
they are offered at his job however they are too expensive for us to afford to insure me.
once again, you say we are or aren't doing this that or the other thing yet the truth of the matter is YOU DON'T KNOW so stop it please.
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14|4|i AM doing something to better myself shelia.............|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|14:12:49|10/15/2008|
copied and pasted directly from your previous post:
"If you are not actively doing something to better yourself by finding another job, going back to school, moving to a different area, etc. then you don't want to be better. "
how DARE you say that of ANYONE on this board!
oh my word!
*shakes head* i have got to go now, you have COMPLETLEY ticked me off woman!
***** BOYCOTT COUPON CLIPPING SERVICES that don't want YOU trading *****
16|5|Why can't you get insurance?|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|15:07:24|10/15/2008|
Forget it, I'm sorry. I'm having a bad day.
I do get frustrated that there are people like many of our families that work hard and are just barely able to make ends meet. However, I wouldn't qualify for the "handouts" that Obama is talking about giving away. Just my opinion, but I'm still paying off the portion of my last child's delivery (5 years ago) that insurance didn't pay, while people I know on medicaid didn't pay a dime and won't get off their arse to find a job. We make too much money to qualify for any kind of government program anyway, but it's OK for the people who do to get more under Obama? I just don't understand it.
Sorry, Jackie, I did not mean to come down on you personally. I was using your case as an example, and I shouldn't have. I apologize.
Shelia
17|6|i am a SAHM..............|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|15:27:58|10/15/2008|
and i have priced insurance for me alone, and with family coverage and the average cost here in fl to cover a woman of 35 and of child bearing age averages between $600 and $700 a month. (less if you cover your entire family) my husband's job wants $180 a month for him, an additional $150 for my son, and an additional $625 for me. currently we have my husband insured through the company he works for and my son insured through a private insurer for $128 a month but we can not afford an additional $600 - $700 a month to insure me.
ok, now you may say well you can go get a job and help cover that right? well, that MIGHT be right BUT not only would i incurr the monthly premium for my insurance but i'd also have to incurr afterschool care for my 5yo son as my husband's job entails him being on call 24/7/365 and thus he could be called out at anytime. (he is on the clock from 8am until 4:30pm on "regular" days)
so, it's not always pratical to just "go get a job". also, my preferred profession is waitressing and anyone who has waitressed knows the money is on friday's and saturday's (especially nights) and then we run into who would care for pj if patrick gets called out. (no we do not currently have a babysitter)
in any case, all i am trying to say is that insurance is EXPENSIVE and we just can't afford it, we just can't. so far i've been lucky, i've not had to go to a dr. for an illness since i was 22. i try to stay healthy and keep my family healthy too and that's the best i can do right now.
ps......... i am also NOT for mccain's "health plan", i can't afford that either! lol
jackie - a still undecided registered voter :)
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61|6|I am so with you Shiela on this.....|Quietwaters|Quietwaters39@hotmail.com|07:46:32|10/17/2008|
that is why we are called the working poor. Half the kids at the school here get free lunches, but my kids would be called poor because we choose for them to carry their lunches, and not buy because it was cheaper.
Giving out credit so easily is what got our country into this mess.
************
Posted on Oct-15-08 at 04:18 PM (Eastern) by 98.213.161.195
Referring to your first post about the taxations in general....our country was the 'land of milk and honey' to the less fortunate in that they could come here for OPPORTUNITIES to make a better life for themselves and future generations.....
it's saying something when the rate of illegal immigrants crossing the border from Mexico has gone down since all this hoopla with the economy has hit the fan.
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy."
5|1|My experience|20yrrefunder|tradernikki@yahoo.com|11:54:20|10/15/2008|
I was a bookkeeper for years for a GM car dealer - he sold Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Pontiacs and GMC trucks. He lived in a magnificant house - had tons of money - treated his employees like crap - gave us all sweatshirts for Christmas one year that he got FREE from GM. ANYWAY, he bragged constantly about NEVER, EVER paying any income tax - because he knew how to manipulate the books so that it looked like he never made any money. BULL! He had a young son who would go around to the stores with his mother and pick up cash register receipts on the ground, etc. and give them to his dad and his dad would bring them to me and have me give him the money out of the cash drawer (petty cash) and say that he bought all of these things (toilet paper, paper towels, coffee, creamer, etc.) for his employees. BULLl! Then he would have me take this off as "expenses". He cheated his salesmen out of their commission so that they were ALWAYS paid minimum wage in the end. He protested every single unemployment claim that was made by employees that he fired and he always WON because the unemployment office was always in favor of he employer. I was fired because I "caught" his secretay writing checks to herself - seems like it was for "services rendered". He was a CROOK!
I hope that people like him do finally have to start paying taxes - just like the rest of us.
Nikki in MO
http://www.refundsweepers.com/dcforum/feedback/366.html 6|1|and another thing............|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|12:07:48|10/15/2008|
note that obama stated that after the guy's 1st year he could get the capital gains tax cut for his capital gains. why shouldn't it be that way? we just bought a house and for the 1st year we are living in it we have to pay taxes without any exceptions at all. but next year we will get a $50,000 homestead exception on our taxes. why shouldn't it work that way for businesses too?
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7|1|why is this scary!!!! they should have to pay higher tax|crazymomx2|crazymomx3girls@hotmail.com|12:15:37|10/15/2008|
they are making more money, they should have to be taxed higher than a person earning less money.all his proposted tax cuts and tax hikes would all have to go befor congreess so nothings set in stone .we need change in america.thats why im voting for obama.please do not post or send any hate mail this is my opinion and its not posted to hurt anyone.have a blessed day teri 15|2|Teri the take from the rich and spread the wealth system doesn't work.. take a look at the countries that have tried it|Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|14:38:53|10/15/2008|
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 28 to GO!) 18|1|this artical/tax talks about small bussiness earning $250,000.00 or higher|crazymomx2|crazymomx3girls@hotmail.com|15:43:16|10/15/2008|
Last edited on Oct-15-08 at 03:49 PM (Eastern) by 68.105.65.24
Last edited on Oct-15-08 at 03:48 PM (Eastern) by 68.105.65.24
Last edited on Oct-15-08 at 03:47 PM (Eastern) by 68.105.65.24
Posted on Oct-15-08 at 03:43 PM (Eastern) by 68.105.65.24
if you earn 250,000.00 you should have to pay taxes on it ,if i earn 15,000.00 i should have to pay taxes,taxes go for things like highways/new fire trucks/schools/disasters/the welfare system ect.i do not even know of a family or a small bussiness owner who makes this month in 1 year.how many of know someone in this tax brocket???i do not think there are many on this site as we are all her to strech or dollars buyuseing coupons and trading,if you think of his plan for the average number 95% of americans live under the 250,000,we each ahve our own opinion ,to each his own,as stated in my post this is only my opionion and only my opinion.you can view a great artical posted below.
19|2|i thought of that too teri, i mean really......|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|15:52:04|10/15/2008|
how many people on this site make more than $250,000 a year? i'd luv to meet you! :)
also, just because taxes go up doesn't mean that tax breaks go down, there are a million ways to utilize tax breaks so use them. kwim?
also, obama stated that the 39% tax bracket is the same one that was in effect during clinton's presidency........ well then why is bush so bad because he LOWERED taxes for this particular bracket?
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22|3|Jackie that insurance situation really sucks I don't know why it is so high We pay $135 a week to cover DH,Nick and I ( health and dental) and I have health issues|teener|teenerzacsneenee@yahoo.com|16:27:12|10/15/2008|
our deductable is high $2500 for me $5000 per family Have you called around different companies? 24|4|the last time i checked was in may as husband's ins renewal is in june.....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|16:39:54|10/15/2008|
so mayb e next year they will come down. or if i can find a company that offers ins based on what i want and not what they think i need i might be able to afford it.
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25|1|More about who pays taxes....|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|16:48:40|10/15/2008|
86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the TOP 25% of income earners (up from 84% in 2000)
The TOP 50% pay 97% of all income taxes
The TOP 1% pay 39%, up 2% from 2000 when Pres Bush took office
Above data from the latest tax year released by the IRS.
In 1980, when the top income tax rate was 70%, the richest 1% paid only 19% of all income taxes; now, with a top rate of 35%, they pay more than double that share.
Here are several links to see the Tax codes, deductions, individual income tax rates, etc.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/22958.html
The bigger our govt. gets, the more we get taxed, our lower standard of living continues to go down. I do agree with several points Sheliar posted. I grew up in the mid-50's and at that time, we paid everything in cash and personal checks. Home foreclosures were unheard of and down payment buying a home was required. You just cannot live beyond your means. If we didn't have the money to pay for things, you couldn't buy it period! The value of the dollar is way down and continues to shrink. My husband told me you can't even buy gold, they're sold out! Why, because people are afraid that our currency will become worthless, as long as the Feds continue to print out money by the millions that has no monetary value. This is an exact repeat of history we're going through again just like FDR era. AND FDR also put a freeze on selling gold too!! I just hope we don't go into Great Depression for 10 years. If you don't believe me, do some research. Sharon:)
27|2|My husband has worked 30 years to be at his income level and the thought of us paying more taxes to "spread the wealth" sickens me to no end...|freebiejunkie|joelpoole@msn.com|17:05:16|10/15/2008|
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed." ~Robert H. Schuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God, will
come to know God because they know you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
~Ronald Reagan
28|3|but SUPPOSEDLY obama wants to NOT increase taxes for ANYONE who makes less than $250,000 a year............|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|17:07:08|10/15/2008|
i just don't think it's possible. jmho
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30|4|You're right, It's not....|freebiejunkie|joelpoole@msn.com|17:17:35|10/15/2008|
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed." ~Robert H. Schuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God, will
come to know God because they know you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
~Ronald Reagan
42|2|The top income earners pay an average of 18% in taxes...|sunriver|lithiasalt@cheerful.com|17:54:49|10/15/2008|
At least they did in 2005 when the census info was taken. How much do you pay in taxes, on average? 26|1|Get this....|freebiejunkie|joelpoole@msn.com|17:03:21|10/15/2008|
My daughter is 21, a high school graduate, and lives on here own and has for 3 years...she made about $10,000 last year...She started nursing school this fall and applied for some grant money...Guess how much she got? ZERO ! Nothing...She had to take out a student loan...Something is wrong with that picture...She now goes to school full time and continues to work also...She said her first day of school, the student assistant lines was FULL...You don't want to really here my TRUE opinion on this one....:)
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed." ~Robert H. Schuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God, will
come to know God because they know you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
~Ronald Reagan
46|2|My DD - |20yrrefunder|tradernikki@yahoo.com|19:32:10|10/15/2008|
My DD got grants/scholarships for the first 3 years of college - based on our income - then this past year she was denied - WHY? - our income had not gone up - nothing had changed - so she went to the Financial Aid office at her college and was told that the reason that she did not get ANYTHING was because the government was spending all of its money on the war in IRAQ and there wasn't any money left for college grants, etc.
Hope you do not have kids in college or expect to get any money from the government any time soon.
Nikki in MO
http://www.refundsweepers.com/dcforum/feedback/366.html 48|3|wow, that is sad :( What do they think is going to happen in the future? If young people cant get an education now to have good jobs, they may be needing assistance of somekind in the future...doesnt seem like a good 'investment' to me :(|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|20:16:48|10/15/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 49|3|something tells me that the person that said that......|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|20:18:58|10/15/2008|
probably made an assumption on their own and could possibly be fired for saying such a thing even IF it is true.
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29|1|My fear in that article.....|Abbicca|Abbicca@bellsouth.net|17:07:34|10/15/2008|
is that it says small businesses that "take in" over $250,000...that doesn't say have a 250k PROFIT! There are plenty of businesses that have a high REVENUE but have high costs associated with them as well. I'd have to do more research to find out exactly what he meant by "take in 250k"---but if he's talking GROSS revenue.... I'm scared. Cuz small business owners might only have a 15% markup if they're in retail of large items---their GROSS might be 250k, but their true profit might only be the 15 markup...or 37,500. There's a HUGE difference if he's talking taxing someone on their GROSS or penalizing people who have high GROSS revenue---cuz that's not their true "earnings" and that could easily stop people from trying to branch out on their own. 31|2|but businesses, no matter how small or large.....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|17:18:34|10/15/2008|
get tax deductions the american people don't. so even if their revenue is $250,00 and they can deduct say $100,000 of it they still only pay taxes on $150,000. so that's $58,500 as opposed to $97,500. (according to the 39% tax rate obama stated in the video) if i'm "hearing" this right anyway. i dunno, maybe i'm wrong.
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36|3|Pussecat... your example talks of paying taxes on their PROFIT|Abbicca|Abbicca@bellsouth.net|17:43:03|10/15/2008|
IF that is what Obama means that is one thing...but if he's talking taxing on GROSS.... he's saying if they TAKE in 250,000 they will have to pay AT LEAST 37% = 97,500...but that can EASILY be more than their PROFIT!!! How can that make sense...how can a business exist if they PAY out more than they take in....simply put, they can't.
I agree that small business IS the backbone of our society.... it IS the American dream to get ahead and one way is thru small business.... if we lose the middle class, and the chasm between haves and "have not's" increases to THAT point...I simply believe we will live the French Revolution in the US.....because the poor will have no hope of improving their lot in life, and will end up revolting. 37|4|amy i didn't say it made sense...........|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|17:48:44|10/15/2008|
please don't put words into my mouth. what i sad was if they have $250,000 in revenue and they deduct $100,000 they woudl pay $58,5000 as opposed to $97,000 before deductions. in ANY case whether they have a revenue of $250,000 and a profit of $100,000 they can STILL deduct and thus pay less taxes correct?
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44|5|That was the question I was trying to pose in my first post|Abbicca|Abbicca@bellsouth.net|18:12:44|10/15/2008|
WAS Obama saying tax them on the PROFIT (aka let them take off their expenses before taxing them) or was he saying if they TAKE IN a GROSS revenue of 250,000 that they will have to pay at least 39% of the GROSS?
I said I'd have to do more research to find that out as I didn't know..but it scared me if it was on GROSS not NET, because many small businesses do not have a 39% profit margin to even HAVE that much to pay!!!
Also, I didn't say YOU said it made sense...my only reference to you personally was in stating that you were pointing to taxing on the PROFIT...not the gross...and saying that was where my original question lay anyway. If you read it to mean I thought YOU/Jackie personally thought it made sense...I apologize...it was just my intent to say no company could exist if they always ran "in the red". 32|2|That is what my mom just told me about 2 minutes ago....Can you imagine the cost of running a buisness that takes in $250 k in sales/services...It just means that prices on everything will have to rise, cost of services will go up....MAKES NO SENSE !|freebiejunkie|joelpoole@msn.com|17:20:19|10/15/2008|
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed." ~Robert H. Schuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God, will
come to know God because they know you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
~Ronald Reagan
33|2|Abbica, this is what I think too.....|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|17:20:35|10/15/2008|
the part where Obama says that small businesses that take in over 250K, to me that means GROSS income, not profit, and that is the scary part!! So if that's the case, we are going to see a massive increase of small business going bust! Many people don't realize that small businesses are the backbone of keeping our country chugging along, not the big companies! My husband was a small business owner of a computer school from 1970-2004. Reason he closed the school - too many rules, regulations, and getting taxed to death. The state and govt. treated my husband so terribly when he worked 70-90 hours a week including weekends to keep the school going and a roof over our heads with 4 daughters and me to support. He did everything by the book, followed all the rules, paid all the taxes, etc., and this is how he gets treated? Our govt. perception of small business is that you're the evil guy!! What a darn shame. Capitalism works, Socialism does not. Sharon:) 35|3|That's because small business people dont line the politicians' pockets! :(|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|17:39:44|10/15/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 38|4|What do you mean by small businesses don't have to line politicans pockets?....|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|17:49:54|10/15/2008|
Of course my husband had to pay taxes both state and fed, plus bills, employee salaries, their health/pension plans, advertisements, insurance/lawyer fees etc., We were lucky we had any extra leftover after paying all our home/food bills, etc., He didn't get any tax breaks, not like the big corporations. Sharon 39|5|No, I mean like big business does....perks, 'favors', etc that gets them legislature in their favor....think the recent bail-outs....|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|17:51:25|10/15/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 41|6|OK that's correct - big corporations and their "special interest groups" - the perks...right! nt|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|17:53:39|10/15/2008|
nt 40|4|Very true Joy..... they pay the taxes, but don't have enough to GIFT to politicians|Abbicca|Abbicca@bellsouth.net|17:53:34|10/15/2008|
What this would lead to is a mass decline in small businesses...or decline in HONESTY among them. The self employment tax on sole proprietors has always been a sticking point with most (as they pay BOTH halves of social security and medicare---which is why they can take off their expenses without being subject to the 2% rule that employees have)...but if they got the joy of paying over 30% INCOME taxes on it too?!?! You're talking over 37% or 39% on gross..... self employment tax (basically 15% on their profit)...then they get to pay their state and local income taxes...... what incentive is there to TRY to get ahead??
I've had plenty of small business owners who I've point blank told they'd be better off getting jobs at $6/hour...because their PROFIT was less than that for the hours they were working. It's a crazy world we live in.
34|2|That's an excellent point, Amy! I dont have a small business, so it didnt occur to me that the wording is perhaps misleading.....|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|17:37:49|10/15/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 43|1|i THINK i found the answer to your question amy.....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|18:06:29|10/15/2008|
if i am reading this correctly it is MAKING $250,000, so would that be profit or revenue?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11670.html
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45|1|That makes it sound like taxing on the PROFIT--and I'm not sure it would apply to the sole proprietors|Abbicca|Abbicca@bellsouth.net|18:42:20|10/15/2008|
But even then.... taxation at 50%??? for partnerships, sole proprietors and Sub chapter S corps?!?!
We're not talking Walmart and MicroSoft and the BIG dogs here---they're all C-Corps....and no mention of taxing THEM extra!!! That's mainly talking about the Mom and Pop shops.... yes, the successful ones..... they may be putting in 80 hours a week to get that profit...or that MIGHT show up as a high profit because they have to write off their equipment over YEARS...not all at once (which is when they were OUT the money to start with!!). Shots are...if these people had that income on their taxes (and they had to for the info to come from the IRS)...they were already paying alot of taxes. (The exception being if their profits were qualified dividends/cap gains...where there are tax breaks). In the end... EVERYONE fills out the same tax forms.. 1040 or a version thereof....and their tax rate is determined by their income.
I'd rather see C-Corps---the TRUE BIG BUSINESSES have to pay more taxes on THEIR corporate taxes...yes, it would mean lower profits for the big corps....but they SUPPOSEDLY pay their profits out to shareholders who THEN get to report it as income. Even if Mom and Pop's Sub chapter S profits $250,000...I don't think they should have to pay 50% at THAT level. It really would lead to tax evasion, less small business overall, and then the overall decline of any type of middle class.
50|2|This is Socialism....|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|20:31:34|10/15/2008|
and taxing at 50%, I am not surprised and it will most likely happen. The mom & pop small businesses are the ones that will get hurt the most. This is the decline of the middle class and it's a real darn shame. This is what I was saying in my other post about my husband once having a small business and the reason he no longer is in business. Plus, did not feel it was fair to continue working 70-90 hours a week including weekends just to pay to those who don't live up to their responsibility. We were meant to live independently, not to depend on govt. for all kinds of assistance. Don't get me wrong, I think some help is fine short-term but not long-term and I feel this is where a lot of abuse/taking advantage of the system comes in. Yes, some people are getting the help they need when they need it, but they have to realize that it isn't free - somebody has to pay for it and it's the taxpayers. Sharon 47|1|spread the wealth =communisn think USSR|tollman62|thebossatnight@yahoo.com|20:03:42|10/15/2008|
here are some things to think about
how about a flat tax then everyone pays the same percentage and knows the cost of making the next dollar.
health insurance is expensive for premium plans it can run up to $100 a month there are many plans for less and you do not have to go through an employer to get basic insurance. I purchased mine seperately for years just covered basics with big deductable. I purchased my plan through Prudential back then you would not think of them for health insurance on a normal day. My daughter works in the health insurance industry and told me there are plans avaiiable on every scale.
There are over 50,000 pages of IRS tax laws even the head of the agency has made mistakes testifying before congress about the tax laws. We need a NEW tax system not a reform of the flawed one we have now. A pound of clay no matter how you reform it is still simply a pound of clay.
corporations are dually taxed on income me as a shareholder pays taxes on the dividends I receive and as the owner of jumbo corp pay taxes on the profits made to pay those dividends.
more transactions will be made for cash so there is no record and no tax paid. Drug dealers love buying things like cars and paying 9,999.00 because a finacial transaction record does not get filed until the total purchase price exceeeds 10,000 dollars.
Look at the sites like prosper.com and other peer to peer lending sites that are sprouting up
even our best persoal plans can get derailed on ocassion if we all stick together providing thoughtfull dialog and support we will get through the tough times together better able to help the next person.
It is nice to be important but it is more imporetant to be nice
I am looking for offers in concealed cash ayor ppef stamps or make an offer in????
I mail all my trades from the post office and get a receipt.
you always hear noises in the dark when you work at night 53|2|socialism&comunism are too toally different things|cdoane|cdoane@mail.com|22:17:08|10/15/2008|
im poor so give me the wealth 55|3|Why should someone give you their wealth?|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|00:07:52|10/16/2008|
Sounds like we are to become a nation of charity cases. What little I have is MINE, and I don't want the government taking it and giving it to anyone else. If I had more, I still wouldn't. Think about it, if you were the one with the money, would you want someone coming along and saying we had to "distribute the wealth"? I don't think so.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
56|4|What incentive do we have to succeed if our success is just going to be handed to those who don't bother to try|Kristy|mi3zons1@yahoo.com|00:10:50|10/16/2008|
"Women should not have children after 35. Thirty-five children are enough." - anonymous (Only 28 to GO!) 57|5|Exactly....why should someone give you their wealth?....|Sharon|s_forshee@hotmail.com|01:09:39|10/16/2008|
The money my husband has earned through hard work is ours to keep, not yours. If it was the other way around, how would you like it if I took half your money (this is what Obama wants to do - redistribute the wealth to those who don't pay taxes). I don't think you would like it one bit! Thanks Sheila, your points well taken. Sharon:) 59|3|Communism and Socialism are one step apart....and I dont want a part of either one of them. I agree, if someone has worked to earn something why should the govt have the right to take it and give to someone who didnt earn it....and look at history, NO ONE lives well in that situation except for the "rulers". |saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|16:57:39|10/16/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 51|1|small business owner here,,,,,|ptmama525|ptmama525@aol.com|20:32:04|10/15/2008|
my education/background...I have a high school diploma, I guess I can say I have some college ( I attended 1 class, stood in line longer to register than actually attended, lol)My sister is a teacher, with various degrees...my brother is a college graduate, with a teachers degree, but currently is a loan officer for a bank.
I haven't followed any of the political debates etc.... if taxes were the only things a small business owner faces I would be on cloud nine....it takes a lot of money just to start a business, let alone keep it going.... I honestly couldn't tell you what tax bracket the business is in or even what tax bracket my husband and I are in, as I pay an accountant and just write the checks.....the way I look at it is, nothing I say or do is going to change anything so no need to get worked up over it.
JMO
Deedra
52|1|Capital gains for small business?|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|22:15:13|10/15/2008|
I was just listening to the Michael Savage radio show (admittedly conservative), and he brought up that Obama says he will eliminate capital gains on small businesses--but that small businesses don't pay capital gains anyway. I can't seem to find a lot on the internet about this--most of the small business capital gains info I have found says that capital gains are generated during the sale of the business, or sale of a building or other asset, but that they are exempt from this if the asset has been held for more than 15 years or the person's retiring. I also found some reference to the capital gains tax being eliminated for the lower bracket of small businesses in 2008--but I don't know what that means. Any insight on this? Is Obama promising something that already doesn't exist?
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
54|1|Look at the Reagan years |sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|22:30:21|10/15/2008|
One of the first things Reagan did as president was lower the tax rate on the wealthy. His largest tax cuts were to the highest earners. This inspired economic growth, because it's the people with money who can hire others and open new businesses more readily. "...Reagan's tax cuts actually made the tax code more progressive, not less, because in 1980, the richest 1% paid 19.05% of all federal income taxes, but by 1988, their share had increased to 27.58%". Prior to Reagan, couples in the highest tax bracket filing jointly paid 70% of their income in taxes. Under Reagan, "real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years; it experienced a loss of almost $1,500 in the post-Reagan years. Interest rates, inflation, and unemployment fell faster under Reagan than they did immediately before or after his presidency."
To me, increasing taxes on the rich and making government bigger is not the answer. It will only cause more problems, in my opinion.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
60|2|McCain has a similar theory...lower the big business taxes to keep those businesses in the US....there are countries who are so much lower than the US on business taxes, some companies are looking to relocate elsewhere (not talking about outsourcing).....that would mean loss of jobs here, and that couldnt be a good thing for anyone.|saint6811|waylan@comcast.net|17:01:03|10/16/2008|
"Middle age is when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy." 58|1|Something I was just thinking...|freebiejunkie|joelpoole@msn.com|09:11:36|10/16/2008|
Kinda an odd comparison..but..We all go out and collect coupons, forms, etc...We trade them here and there for things we need....We don't just simply give these things away...some may give raoks and donate, but most of the time they (the things we trade) are the fruits of our labor....We coupon shop, bargain hunt, etc and then stockpile...We may have yard sales to sell off excess, give some to family & friends and donate....But that is our choice...What if the government came in our homes and just "TOOK" it from us....would we not all be stark raving mad??? This is just a small example of what (God forbid) could come....
I agree that I do not think we should "spread the wealth".....Most of the people that he would give it to don't deserve a penny of my money....some have been getting too much for too long anyways...for me charity begins at home....MY HOME!....I love donating to people in need, but a lot of the people that would benefit from that nonsense can and should work for their own....We have always worked for ours:)
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
- Robert Louis Stevenson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed." ~Robert H. Schuller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Live in such a way that those who know you, but don't know God, will
come to know God because they know you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If we ever forget that we’re one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
~Ronald Reagan
62|2|trickle down|bish8|bish212@earthlink.net|19:02:37|10/18/2008|
The trickle down theory sure hasn't trickled down to me. The gap between the rich and the poor just keeps getting wider. So how have the last eight years worked out for you? 63|3|In all honesty..the last 8 years have been good....|Quietwaters|Quietwaters39@hotmail.com|21:42:57|10/18/2008|
I am a shift manager for a small business, and have gotten either a raise or a bonus improvement every 6 months. I do wonder what will happen if the taxes on the business are raised. My husband has had a slow down at work, because of the housing market, but that has only been in the last 6 months.
Do we have everything we want, no, but we do have every thing we need. There are lots of things we have chosen to do with out, so that we still have money left for certain areas were we have chosen to donate.
************
In the last 8 years, my husband has doubled his income, which has allowed me to stay home and work part-time teaching at the community college. Until recently, we have had no problems making ends meet. I certainly don't blame current problems on Bush, since it was Clinton who started all the "mortgages for all" stuff.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
64|1|if we stoped buying the products that are not usa made the companys woundnt leave|crazymomx2|crazymomx3girls@hotmail.com|05:58:29|10/19/2008|
i know i have been looking at everything.trying to buy usa goods only to keep our money her in the good old usa. 66|2|Problem is--who can afford to?|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|13:13:23|10/21/2008|
Goods made in other countries are cheaper most of the time. When you are having a hard time putting gas in your tank or food on the table, reading the label to see where it's made is pretty far down my list of worries (unless it's China, of course!).
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
68|3|I changed my mindset...|sunriver|lithiasalt@cheerful.com|14:00:24|10/21/2008|
My best example is renting videos which is something that my family does about once a month or so. I used to frequent blockbuster because it was a little cheaper than the mom and pop video store in town. I convinced myself I was saving money.
Over time I started looking at it differently. That mom and pop video store employs many locals and they keep a bigger staff than the nationally known store does. They allow area non-profits to sit inside and sell things as fundraisers and the shelter to bring in dogs and cats on certain days for adoptions. They sell local products, including some local handicraft items, so that is another way they are helping our local economy grow.
I can't afford to rent at Blockbuster anymore. That dollar I save isn't a savings to me in the long run.
I changed the way I think about it.
I can't do that on a grand scale, but I can take baby steps and change a little bit at a time. 69|3|we try to support our local mom and pop restaurant's....|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|14:05:41|10/21/2008|
the food is usually better than regional or continental restuarant's and it's nice to walk into a restuarant and have the owners say "hi mr and mrs shipman, it's good to see you again, have a seat anywhere you like."
:)
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70|3|I meant a product on the shelf|sheliar|sandk95@embarqmail.com|14:13:53|10/21/2008|
I was meaning products on the shelf where you have an American made product that is more expensive than one that's made elsewhere. I usually buy what I have a coupon for, or can get the cheapest--and (except for China), don't think about where it's made. I don't have the luxury of the extra money right now.
Shelia
"They say that we are better educated than our parents' generation. What they mean is that we go to school longer. They are not the same thing."---Douglas Yates
71|4|i buy what i like, i don't look at labels as far as where it's made *shrug*|pussecat|pu55ecat@aol.com|14:17:10|10/21/2008|
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